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​Ivan 12:41 – Izaija je vidio svoju slavu

Ali premda je učinio tolika znamenja pred njima, oni ipak ne povjerovaše u njega, da bi se ispunila riječ proroka Izaije, koju je rekao: “[Jehova], tko je povjerovao našem glasu? Kome se otkrila ruka [Jehova]?” Iz tog razloga nisu mogli vjerovati, jer je Izaija ponovno rekao: “Zaslijepio im je oči i otvrdnuo im je srce, Da ne bi očima vidjeli, i srcem ne opazili, i obratili se, i ja bih ih izliječio. ” Izaija je to rekao kad je vidio njegovu slavu i govorio o njemu. Ivan 12:37-41 Svjetski engleski prijevod Biblije Sveto ime koje smo dostavili u zagradama “Ove stvari” o kojima Ivan gore govori izravno se odnose na najmanje dva različita poglavlja Izaije kako ih Ivan citira: Izaija 6 i Izaija 53. Vjerujemo da se “Njegova slava” odnosi na Jehovinu slavu. Usprkos tome, vrijeme o kojem se govori kada je Izaija vidio slavu Jehovinu pokriva cijelo vrijeme zabilježeno barem od Izaijinog poglavlja 6 do Izaijinog poglavlja 53. Prema mnogima, postoji "jasan" dokaz da je Isus Jehova u Ivanovim izjavama zapisanim u Ivanu 12:37-41. Ivan 12:41, kao da bi ovo trebalo riješiti stvar. Jedan kaže: “Ivan jasno govori o Gospodinu Isusu Kristu u ovom stihu i primjenjuje slavu koju je Izaija vidio na drugu osobu Trojstva.” Drugi kaže “Ivan kaže u Ivanu 12:41 da je Izaija vidio Isusa na prijestolju (Izaija 6)”. Slično, jedan tvrdi: “Apostol Ivan kaže da je slava koju je vidio Izaija bila slava Gospodina Isusa Krista (Ivan 12:41)” Zapravo, ako je Ivanova namjera bila pokazati da je Isus Jehova, on je to sigurno učinio na vrlo neodređen i nejasan način. Međutim, nema naznaka da je to bila Ivanova namjera, pogotovo jer je citirao Isusa kako poriče da je on - Isus - jedini pravi Bog. (Ivan 17:1,3) Njegova je namjera bila pokazati kako je Jehova prorekao preko Izaije o sljepoći Izraela kao cjeline u pogledu Jehovine ruke. “Jahvina ruka” predstavlja Jehovinu moć i vladavinu, ali pojavljuje se na najmanje dva mjesta u Izaiji kao primijenjena kao Njegova moć dana njegovom sinu. (Psalam 10:15; Ezekiel 30:21; Jeremija 48:25; Izaija 40:10; 52:10) Uniosobni Bog i Isusov Otac daje svome sinu ne samo autoritet, nego i svu moć daje Isusu jedini pravi Bog, tako da kada Svevišnji Jehova dođe suditi svijetu (Psalam 96:13; 98:9), On to čini preko svog sina. (Ivan 5:22,23; Djela 10:42; 17:31; Rimljanima 2:16; 1. Korinćanima 4:5) Njegov uniosobni Bog i Isusov Otac je taj koji Isusu daje ovu vlast, svu vlast i moć (s očigledna iznimka položaja da sam bude Svevišnji — 1. Korinćanima 15:27), ali Isusovo vršenje ove moći i autoriteta je na hvalu i slavu Jehovi, jednoosobnom Bogu i Ocu Gospodina Isusa. Biblijski pisci nikada nisu tvrdili da je Isus krajnji "izvor" vlastite moći. — Psalam 2,6-8; 45:7; 110:1,2; Izaija 9:6,7; 11:2; 42:1; 61:1-3; Jeremija 23:5; Danijel 7:13,14; Matej 12:28; 28:18; Luka 1:32; 4:14,18; 5:17; Ivan 3:34; 5:19,27,30;10:18,36-38; Djela apostolska 2:22; 10:38; Rimljanima 1,1-4; 1. Korinćanima 15,27; 2. Korinćanima 13,4; Kološanima 1,15.16; 2:10; Efežanima 1,17-22; Filipljanima 2,9-11; Hebrejima 1:2,4,6,9; 1. Petrova 3:22. Kao što je navedeno, Ivan citira dva različita poglavlja Izaije: poglavlja 6 i 53. Ivan 12:40 izveden je iz Izaije 6:10. Međutim, AKO je Ivan govorio o tome da je Izaija vidio slavu Isusovu, njegovo viđenje te slave nije ograničeno na Izaiju 6, već bi uključivalo sva poglavlja između Izaije 6 do i uključujući Izaiju 53. Izaija 53 sigurno govori o Isusovom slavljenju, jer u Izaiji 53, Jehovina ruka je Isus, a otkrivanje te ruke sigurno će otkriti i Isusovu slavu. Ivan se, međutim, poziva na to, ne govori o Isusovoj slavi, kako bi pokazao zašto Židovi ne mogu vjerovati u Isusa - po kome se obznanjuje Jehovina ruka. (U tom smislu, Jehovina "ruka" predstavlja Isusa.) Sveto pismo pokazuje da ljudi ne vjeruju jer je Jehova od njih sakrio istinu. Usprkos tome, vjerujemo da se Ivan 12:41 odnosi na Izaiju 6:10 kao i na Izaiju 53:1, u kontekstu kojih je Izaija vidio ne samo Jehovinu slavu, već i Isusa. Ipak, u Izaiji 6:8, Izaija je taj koji kaže: "Evo me, pošalji mene!", Jehovi kada ga pitaju tko će ići reći ljudima o "nama". — to jest, Jehova i sva slava u hramu koju je upravo vidio Izaija. Postoje neke razlike u mišljenjima o tome odnosi li se oblik koji predstavljaju masoreti, često transliteriran kao Adonai (ili Adonaj) u Izaiji 6:1,8, na Isusa ili Jehovu. Veliki Izaijin svitak, međutim, ima tetragramton u Izaiji 6:8, stoga pretpostavljamo da se u ova dva stiha odnosi na Jehovu. Stoga, Izaija kaže da će govoriti o Jehovi ljudima, što bi odgovaralo Ivanovoj posljednjoj primjedbi u Ivanu 12:41, “i on [Bog ili Izaija?] je govorio

je od njega [Isusa].” Nakon čega Jehova daje Izaiji do znanja da će ljudi čuti, ali neće razumjeti, i, zapravo, kaže da ih je On [Jehova] zaslijepio, itd., što je stih na koji se neizravno upućuje u Ivanu 12:40. S obzirom na to, razuman je zaključak da je Ivan mislio na Isusovog Boga, Jehovu, koji se spominje u Ivanu 12:38 kao onome koji je oslijepio u Ivanu 12:40. Stoga bi "njegova slava" o kojoj se govori u Ivanu 12:42 bila Jehovina slava koju je Izaija vidio, a ne izravno Isusova slava iako se Jehovina slava također vidi u (kroz, posredstvom) Isusa. Mogli bismo dodati da su mnogi pojedinci vjerovali u Isusa, kao što Ivan navodi u Ivanu 12:42. Međutim, sadašnji zli svijet nije vrijeme kada se Isus i njegovi sveci otkrivaju svima - nego samo nekolicini onih koji vjeruju i stoga "vide" pomoću vjere. (Ponovljeni zakon 29:4; Izaija 6:9; 44:18; Matej 13:13,14,16; Ivan 12:40; Djela 28:26,27; Rimljanima 11:7-10; 2. Korinćanima 5:7) otkrivanje slave Isusa i njegovog Boga svijetu koji će biti u sljedećem dobu - dok je Sotona bačen u ponor, na koje vrijeme svijet u neznanju čeka. (Rimljanima 8:19-22; Otkrivenje 20:1-3; Izaija 2:2-4; 11:9; 25:7) Dakle, u ovom sadašnjem dobu, svijet je još uvijek zaslijepljen Sotoninom prijevarom. — 2. Korinćanima 4:4; Otkrivenje 12:9. S druge strane, moguće je da je Ivan mislio da je Izaija vidio Isusovu slavu. Iako se ne slažemo s ovim stajalištem, vjerujemo da je moguće. S ove točke gledišta moramo primijetiti da u Izaijinoj sceni prvi stih u Masoretu nema hebrejski tetragram za Jehovu, već “ADONAI” koji sjedi na prijestolju. Neki prijevodi ovdje stavljaju Jahvu ili Jehovu, ali Veliki Izaijin svitak (Svitak s Mrtvog mora) ovdje nema Jehovu*, već nešto što bi se moglo transliterirati kao "adonaj" ili "adoni". Pisari koji su dodali samoglasnike kako bi pokušali razlikovati adonai i adoni učinili su to mnogo stoljeća nakon što je Isus bio na zemlji. Dodali su samoglasnik na svakom mjestu za koje su vjerovali da se tekst odnosi na Jehovu, ali njihov rad nije nepogrešiv, pa je moguće da je dodavanje samoglasnika u Izaiji 6:1 zapravo njihova pogreška. Stoga zaključujemo da je moguće da je Izaija zapravo govorio o "mojem Gospodinu", u vezi s dolazećim Mesijom, kao što je učinio David u Psalmu 110:1. Međutim, s obzirom na činjenicu da Veliki Izaijin svitak govori o Jehovi kao Kralju u Izaiji 6:5, nalazimo da je vrlo vjerojatno da se u Izaiji 6:1 govori o Jehovi kako sjedi na prijestolju. Ipak, sada se izjavljuje da “Boga nitko nikada nije vidio. Jedinorođeni Sin, koji je u krilu Očevu, On ga objavi.” (Ivan 1:18, Nova verzija kralja Jamesa. Ako se prihvati masoretski tekst Izaije 6:5, Izaija je, gledajući Isusovu slavu, također vidio Božju slavu "u licu Isusa Krista", koji je “sjaj Očeve slave i izrazita slika njegove osobe.” (Vidi 2. Korinćanima 4:6) U Izaiji 6:8 također je (u masoretskom tekstu) Adonai (ili adoni, moj Gospodin, Gospodin Isus) koji daje poruku i izriče presudu. Ako je to istina, onda je vjerojatno da bi adonai, kako se pojavljuje u masoretskom tekstu Izaije 6:1,5, zapravo trebao biti adoni, pozivajući se na Izaijinog Gospodina (kako David govori o "mojem Gospodin" u Psalmu 110:1), to jest Isus. Međutim, budući da Veliki Izaijin svitak ima tetragram u Izaiji 6:5, vrlo sumnjamo da se Izaija 6:8 odnosi na Isusa. ========== *Veliki Izaijin svitak potvrđuje da riječ prevedena kao "Gospodin" u Izaiji 6:1,8 nije Jehova, već da je izvorno bila Adonai (Svevišnji Gospodar) ili Adoni (moj Gospodar). Ipak, Massorah podupire tvrdnju da je tetragram izvorno bio u ovim stihovima, te da su prepisivači promijenili Sveto ime u ADONAI. Veliki Izaijin svitak ima tetragramton u Izaiji 6:5,11, što dodaje dokaz da je tetragram izvorno bio iu Izaiji 6:1,8. http://name.reslight.net/?p=27 Osim toga, Isus odražava Božju slavu, stoga se Jehovina slava vidjela u Isusu kao predstavniku Jehove. Dok je Isus činio svoja čuda, Jehovina slava se vidjela u Isusu. (Matej 9:8; Matej 15:31; Marko 2:12; Luka 5:26; 7:16; 13:13; 23:47; Ivan 11:40; 13:31,32) Svi će se pokloniti Isusu slava Božja. (Filipljanima 2:11) To je slava Jehovina koja će se otkriti kroz Isusa i Crkvu tijekom Tisućljetne vladavine. – Psalam 2:6; Izaija 11:9; 9:6,7; 60:2; Ivan 11:40; 13:31; Otkrivenje 21:10,11. U svakom slučaju, referenca u Ivanu 21:41 sigurno ne identificira Isusa kao Jehovu, kao što naučavaju mnogi vjernici trojstva, kao i neki drugi koji žele vjerovati da je Isus Jehova. Vidi: Razumijevanje misterija Kraljevstva i Obnova svih stvari Neka druga gledišta Iako ne prihvaćamo nužno ta stajališta, niti ih izravno odbacujemo. Ivan 12:41 i trinitaristički apologeti — Patrick Navas.

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John 12:41 – Isaiah Saw His Glory

But though he had done so many signs before them, yet they didn’t believe in him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke, “[Jehovah], who has believed our report? To whom has the arm of [Jehovah] been revealed?” For this cause they couldn’t believe, for Isaiah said again, “He has blinded their eyes and he hardened their heart, Lest they should see with their eyes, And perceive with their heart, And would turn, And I would heal them.” Isaiah said these things when he saw his glory, and he spoke of him.

John 12:37-41

World English Bible translation

Holy Name Supplied by us in brackets

 

“These things” that John speaks of above directly pertain to at least two different chapters of Isaiah as quoted by John: Isaiah 6 and Isaiah 53. We believe that “His glory” refers to the glory of Jehovah. Nevertheless, the time being spoken of when Isaiah saw the glory of Jehovah covers all the time recorded at least from Isaiah chapter 6 to Isaiah chapter 53.

 

According to many, there is “clear” proof that Jesus is Jehovah in John’s statements as recorded in John 12:37-41. John 12:41, as though this should settle the matter. One states: “John is clearly speaking about the Lord Jesus Christ in this verse and is applying the glory which Isaiah saw, to the second person of the Trinity.” Another states “John says in John 12:41 that Isaiah saw Jesus on the throne (Isaiah 6)”. Similarly, one claims: “The Apostle John states that the glory seen by Isaiah was that of the Lord Jesus Christ (John 12:41)”

 

In actuality, if John’s intent was to show that Jesus is Jehovah, he certainly did it in a very vague and obscure manner. However, there is no indication that this was John’s intent, especially since he quoted Jesus as denying that he — Jesus — is the only true God. (John 17:1,3) His intent was to show how Jehovah had prophesied through Isaiah concerning the blindness of Israel as a whole respecting the arm of Jehovah. The “arm of Jehovah” represents Jehovah’s power and rulership, but it appears in at least two places in Isaiah to be applied as His power given to His son. (Psalm 10:15; Ezekiel 30:21; Jeremiah 48:25; Isaiah 40:10; 52:10) The unipersonal God and Father of Jesus gives to His son, not just authority, but also all power is given to Jesus by the only true God, so that when the Most High Jehovah comes to judge the world (Psalm 96:13; 98:9), He does so by means of His son. (John 5:22,23; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Romans 2:16; 1 Corinthians 4:5) It is his unipersonal God and Father of Jesus who gives Jesus this dominion, all authority and power (with the evident exception of the position of being the Most High Himself — 1 Corinthians 15:27), yet the exercise of this power and authority by Jesus is all to the praise and glory of Jehovah, the unipersonal God and Father of the Lord Jesus. The Bible writers never claimed that Jesus is the ultimate “source” of his own power. — Psalm 2:6-8; 45:7;110:1,2; Isaiah 9:6,7; 11:2; 42:1; 61:1-3; Jeremiah 23:5; Daniel 7:13,14;Matthew 12:28; 28:18; Luke 1:32; 4:14,18; 5:17; John 3:34; 5:19,27,30;10:18,36-38; Acts 2:22; 10:38; Romans 1:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:27; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Colossians 1:15,16; 2:10; Ephesians 1:17-22; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:2,4,6,9; 1 Peter 3:22.

 

As noted, John quotes from two different chapters of Isaiah: chapters 6 and 53.John 12:40 is derived from Isaiah 6:10. However, IF John was speaking of Isaiah’s seeing the glory of Jesus, his seeing that glory is not confined to Isaiah 6, but would include all the chapters between Isaiah 6 up to and including Isaiah 53. Isaiah 53 certainly speaks of Jesus’ glorification, for in Isaiah 53, the arm of Jehovah is Jesus, and the revealing of that arm will certainly reveal also the glory of Jesus.

John, however, refers to this, not speak of Jesus’ glory, to show why the Jews cannot believe in Jesus — by whom the arm of Jehovah is made known. (In this sense, the “arm” of Jehovah represents Jesus.) The scriptures show that that the people do not believe because Jehovah has concealed the truth from them. Nevertheless, John 12:41, we believe refers back to Isaiah 6:10 as well as Isaiah 53:1, in the context of which Isaiah had seen not only the glory of Jehovah, but also Jesus.

Nevertheless, In Isaiah 6:8, it is Isaiah that says: “Here I am, send me!”, to Jehovah when asked who will go to tell the people concerning “us”. — that is, Jehovah and all the in the temple glory just seen by Isaiah.

 

There is some difference of opinion as to whether the form presented by the Masoretes, often transliterated as Adonai (or, Adonay) in Isaiah 6:1,8 refers to Jesus or Jehovah. The Great Isaiah Scroll, however, does have the tetragrammton in Isaiah 6:8, thus, we assume that in these two verses it does refer to Jehovah. Thus, Isaiah says he will speak of Jehovah to the people, which would correspond to the John’s last remark in John 12:41, “and he [God or Isaiah?] spoke of him [Jesus].” After which Jehovah lets Isaiah know that the people will hear, but not understand, and, in effect, says that He [Jehovah] has blinded them, etc., which is the verse referenced indirectly in John 12:40. In view of this, the reasonable conclusion is that John was referring back to the God of Jesus, Jehovah, mentioned in John 12:38 as the one who did the blinding in John 12:40. Thus “his glory” spoken of in John 12:42 would be the glory of Jehovah that Isaiah saw, and not directly the glory of Jesus although the glory of Jehovah is also seen in (through, by means of) Jesus.

We might add that many individuals did believe in Jesus, as John states in John 12:42. However, the present evil world is not the time when Jesus and his saints are revealed to all — but, rather, only to a few who believe and thus “see” by means of faith. (Deuteronomy 29:4; Isaiah 6:9; 44:18; Matthew 13:13,14,16;John 12:40; Acts 28:26,27; Romans 11:7-10; 2 Corinthians 5:7) The revealing of the glory the Jesus and his God to the world will be in the next age — while Satan is abyssed, for which time the world is ignorantly waiting for. (Romans 8:19-22;Revelation 20:1-3; Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:9; 25:7) Thus, in this present age, the world is still blinded by Satan’s deceptions. — 2 Corinthians 4:4; Revelation 12:9.

 

 

On the other hand, it is possible that John did mean that Isaiah had seen the glory of Jesus. While we do not subscribe to this viewpoint, we believe that it is possible. From this viewpoint we need to note in the Isaiah scene, verse one in the Masoretic does not have the Hebrew tetragrammaton for Jehovah, but “ADONAI” sitting on the throne. Some translations put Yahweh or Jehovah here, but the Great Isaiah Scroll (Dead Sea Scroll) does not have Jehovah here*, but rather what could be transliterated as “adonai” or “adoni”. The scribes who added the vowel points to try to distinguish adonai and adoni did so many centuries after Jesus was on earth. They added the vowel point in each place where they believed the text referred to Jehovah, but their work is not infallible, so it is possible that their addition of the vowel point in Isaiah 6:1 is actually an error on their part. Thus, we conclude that it is possible that Isaiah actually referred to “my Lord”, regarding the coming Messiah, as did David in Psalm 110:1. However, in view of the fact the Great Isaiah Scroll refers to Jehovah as King in Isaiah 6:5, we find that it is highly likely that Isaiah 6:1 does refer to Jehovah as sitting on the throne.

 

Nevertheless, now it is declared that “No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” (John 1:18, New King James Version. If one one accepts the Masoretic text of Isaiah 6:5, Isaiah, in seeing the glory of Jesus, also saw the glory of God “in the face of Jesus Christ,” who is “the brightness of the Father’s glory and the express image of his person.” (See 2 Corinthians 4:6) In Isaiah 6:8 also it is (in the Masoretic text) Adonai (or adoni, my Lord, the Lord Jesus) who gives the message and pronounces the judgment. If this be true. then it is probable that adonai as it appears in the Masoretic text of Isaiah 6:1,5 should actually be adoni, referring to Isaiah’s Lord (as David refers to “my Lord” in Psalm 110:1), that is, Jesus. However, since the Great Isaiah Scroll does have the tetragrammaton in Isaiah 6:5, we highly doubt that Isaiah 6:8 refers to Jesus.
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*The Great Isaiah Scroll does support that the word rendered “Lord” in Isaiah 6:1,8 is not Jehovah, but that it was originally Adonai (High Lord), or Adoni (my Lord). Nevertheless, the Massorah supports the claim that the tetragrammaton was originally in these verses, and that the copyists had changed the Holy Name to ADONAI. The Great Isaiah Scroll has the tetragrammton in Isaiah 6:5,11, which adds evidence that the tetragrammaton was originally in Isaiah 6:1,8 also.

http://name.reslight.net/?p=27

Additionally, Jesus reflects the glory of God, thus Jehovah’s glory was being seen in Jesus as the representative of Jehovah. As Jesus performed his miracles, the glory of Jehovah was being seen in Jesus. (Matthew 9:8; Matthew 15:31; Mark 2:12; Luke 5:26; 7:16; 13:13; 23:47; John 11:40; 13:31,32) All will bow to Jesus to the glory of God. (Philippians 2:11) It is the glory of Jehovah that will be revealed through Jesus and the church during the Millennial rule. – Psalm 2:6;Isaiah 11:9; 9:6,7; 60:2; John 11:40; 13:31; Revelation 21:10,11.

At any rate, the reference in John 21:41 certainly does not identify Jesus as being Jehovah, as is taught by many trinity believers, as well as some others who wish to believe that Jesus is Jehovah.

 

See: Understanding Kingdom Mysteries
and
The Restoration of All Things

Some Other Viewpoints
While we do not necessarily subscribe to these viewpoints, neither do we outright reject them.

John 12:41 and Trinitarian Apologists — Patrick Navas.

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